Torchwood: Captain Jack Harkness

[mllelaurel]

- I'd half-figured Jack had nicked his name off of someone, though I used 'Jack' in fic about his past, for lack of any other info. Now I really, really want to know what his real name is.

- *does the dance of Tosh has lines and is magnificent and <3* That's my girl!

- Also, Owen's gone round the bend. It doesn't occur to him at all that even if a) they succeed in opening the Rift, and b) do so without making spacetime go boom, Diane would kick his arse for trying to get her back. Leaving was her choice, not his.

- Whatever the deal with Bilis is, it's actually creepy. Props.

- I'm not making the logical connection to how Gwen found that photo. What'd she do - use magical mystical Gwen powers?

- Owen finding that last piece of the machinery was more believable, though still a long shot.

- The dance and almost-kiss - ETA: More than almost! Hurrah! - were absolutely lovely. Not just in a tawdry fangirl way, but in a poignant, in-character one.

I may have teared up a little. Don't hold it against me.

In conclusion - the scenes in the past were vastly superior to the ones in the present. But the 40s stuff was so brilliant, and besides, I have a feeling Tregenna was a bit constrained by having to lead into Chibnall's finale, in the present scenes. I thus can't bring myself to lower the score.

I will say again how wonderful Jack (both of them) and Tosh were. My love knows no bounds.

Final review: 4

Randomly, I also love that song they played at the end. "Nightingale in Berkley Square." First heard it referenced in Good Omens, actually.

Now that I think about it, Tregenna's really good at using her in-scene music. She did this with "Windy City" in Out of Time, too.


I have this dream of next year's Torchwood being headed by Tregenna, with Helen Raynor, Dan McCulloch, Paul Tomalin and Russell T. Davies also contributing. I'd add P. J. Hammond to that list as well, so long as he's briefed to make his episode mesh with a sci fi world. I'd even add Toby Whithouse - his work may have been derivative, but it was still entertaining.

Hey, I don't make fun of *your* futile dreams, do I?

And to finish this entry, an announcement: According to Wikipedia, Torchwood will be airing on ABC this year. Dude. Never in a million years did I believe it would fly on an American non-cable channel. That's what happens when you don't actually watch TV, I guess. You fall out of date.

Comments

[sharona1x2.livejournal.com]

I think one of the reasons I like Torchwood so much is that the characters screw things up, royally. I don't like Owen all that much, but I could understand his desperation. His mind was still in the bad place it was at the end of episode 11.

[mllelaurel.livejournal.com]

In Owen's case, I agree. However, what they *also* do is have characters screw up royally without adequate motivation - case in point, Gwen in Combat. With this series, *everything* depends on who's writing the episode.

[yoritomo-reiko.livejournal.com]

I love this episode. LOVE it.

[mllelaurel.livejournal.com]

Me too. Oh, me too!

[testickles.livejournal.com]

God that kiss *killed* me. Whimper.

Gwen has magic Gwen powers. I figure it's the only way she's still breathing.

Owen went batshit. No other word for it. Kind of made sense though, in that he's been walking that line for a couple of episodes prior to this.

But but Jack/Jack SQUEE. I fangirled, and teared up. I felt so much for our Jack, I really did. And the 40s one actually.

[mllelaurel.livejournal.com]

I figure it's the only way she's still breathing.

Cause she'd get herself a Darwin Award otherwise, or cause otherwise the fans would've lynched her already? There's a question for the ages.

Oh, Owen's behavior made total sense. Just wasn't very sane of him.

Dude, the 40s stuff killed me. I was yelling 'kiss him!' almost right from the stuff, and in the end there were tears.

I do wonder where Jack's (2000s) gaydar went in this episode. *I* could tell right from the start that his counterpart was more interested in him than Nancy. Those scenes with the three of them, though? *Nicely* done. They conveyed everything without spelling it out.

[amet.livejournal.com]

Torchwood will be airing on ABC this year.

O_O Wut? But... there's sex in it! And we're American!

[mllelaurel.livejournal.com]

*laughs* That was pretty much my reaction. It'll probably be horribly chopped up by the network, and likely as not, Day One will never air.

I know. Big loss.

[sephyelysian.livejournal.com]

I have to agree with mllelaurel here; what bothers me about Torchwood is that their characterization shifts from episode to episode, depending on who is writing it and who they want you to like. It's not a gradual, logical shift either. In some cases, I feel like watching the episodes out of order would make more sense from a character perspective because some of the episodes have more continuity than others. It's like they put the writers in a room with a sort of overarching theme for the seasons and some of them sat down to talk about what to do and others went in their corner and wrote up their own take on things. It's a bit alienating.

In some ways I have the same feeling about this season of Torchwood that I did about Angel season 4 when Joss Whedon was working on Buffy, Angel, and Firefly. Rusty's influence was there but it didn't feel like there was as much control over the production of things and so in a few places, Torchwood meandered and suffered as a result. It doesn't make the show bad, it just means that it could have been much tighter if Rusty hadn't been working on several things at once and devoted his full attention to it.

[yoritomo-reiko.livejournal.com]

Looking at the announcement, I guarantee that ABC is going to have all sorts of protesters up their collective arse about the same sex kissing. And the fact that nobody gives a flying fuck in the show. :)

[mllelaurel.livejournal.com]

It'll be fun to watch the dust fly, that's for sure. Admittedly, I know nothing about the ABC and their policies.

[becky-h.livejournal.com]

I really tried not to be eaten by Torchwood, but Mecca enabled me and I lost. Darn it. Really, no, darn it.

[mllelaurel.livejournal.com]

Mwahaha, and a ha for good measure! Have you seen it all yet?

[becky-h.livejournal.com]

I've seen the first ten episodes and intentionally spoiled myself badly with the last three with vids/video clips, and summary stuff. Mecca's sending them to me though because she's the greatest person in the world; I'm just not that patient.

[mllelaurel.livejournal.com]

Well, I can tell you that 12 is fab. At any rate. So, what'd you think of what you've seen so far?

[nevacaruso.livejournal.com]

Yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!

So glad you liked it; I was 98% sure you would (the remaining ambiguous 2% pertaining mainly to the aforementioned magical mystical Gwen powers).

absolutely lovely. Not just in a tawdry fangirl way, but in a poignant, in-character one.

As soon as things started moving in that direction onscreen, I was so afraid that the kiss would be gratuitous, or be interpreted as such. And in the hands of a lesser writer (naming no names), it might have been. But no. Because of the buildup, and the sadness, and the two speaking volumes with their eyes alone, it became exactly was our Jack was championing throughout the episode: seizing the moment. And, okay, the salute was kind of cheesy, but in a good way.

And, yes. This was the realization of the potential (in terms of both resourcefulness and emotional depth) that we always knew Toshiko had. Her scenes with Jack (and the other officers) were absolutely splendid. Please, writers, more awesome Tosh in Series 2!

[becky-h.livejournal.com]

I actually like the whole series a lot. There are definite inconsistancies with characterization of some of the characters in places, there are some things that feel really really a lot like unapologetic 'fan service' but honestly? I like it for what it is and it's tight and fairly together anyway. It reminds me a lot of, er, Matrix/CSI/Firefly all rolled in one >.< I'm odd.

[mllelaurel.livejournal.com]

Honestly, I think I may have trained my mind to ignore Gwen and all scenes she's in. My only real quibble with this episode was that it should have been spent entirely in the past. Every time they went back to the Hub, I felt like fast-forwarding. Now that I've thought about it, the Owen and Ianto stuff was actually not bad. It just took valuable minutes away from Jack, Jack and Tosh.

Much like technobabble, a *little* bit of cheese is good for the soul. Besides, at this point, I cared too much about those involved to care.

Toooooosh! <3 Hey, writers! *This* is the female lead you want, right here!

[mllelaurel.livejournal.com]

Matrix/CSI/Firefly

Geee, I wonder what the writers watched beforehand. This is actually *my* main quibble; that it very rarely feels like *Torchwood*. But dude. It's got Jack, and that makes up for a great many sins.

[becky-h.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I thought a lot of that was that I slammed 10 episodes down in one sitting, but you're right, it doesn't have a 'vibe' of it's own. Jack. Jack has a vibe.

[mllelaurel.livejournal.com]

You need to see Doctor Who now. *pesters* Jack is even more wonderful if you have that context for him.

[becky-h.livejournal.com]

Mecca also sent me seasons 1 and 2 of Doctor Who, Doctor Who Movie, and The Five Doctors.

As well as Supernatural and Heroes.

I'm working on Dr. Who now *G*

Mecca REALLY likes me.

[mllelaurel.livejournal.com]

Go Mecca! The movie is cheese, but it's fun cheese. Haven't seen The Five Doctors yet.

Thanks for the reminder - I need to get my hands on Heroes and Supernatural, myself.

And I love Mecca for enabling you so well. *g*

[testickles.livejournal.com]

It's kind of a coin-toss, really. I was originally thinking Darwin Award, but both work.

I think Jack was being careful of Jack because he knew the outcome. More not wanting to see it than not seeing it maybe. And and yes, I loved those scenes!

[mllelaurel.livejournal.com]

Darwin Award it is. Let Mother Nature take care of things.

You know, I haven't thought of that but it makes perfect sense. Thanks!

[sharona1x2.livejournal.com]

I'm giving Torchwood a lot of leeway, since it's been my experience that it often takes a show at least one season to find its legs. I adore Star Trek: Next Generation, but when I look back at season 1, it's nowhere as polished as the rest of the series, IMO. Babylon 5 is another example of a series that changed a lot after its first season. (Ironically, I'm more of a season 1 B5 fan. I loved Jeffrey Sinclair.)

I agree that having RTD concentrate on one series at a time would be a big plus. I wasn't thrilled with all the episodes in season 1, and some of the characters appeal to me more than others, but overall, I enjoyed it. So much of that is because of John Barrowman. I find him incredibly charismatic, and I'd watch him in anything. I'm watching Torchwood mainly to see how Captain Jack develops.

I think I pay less attention to some of the details in the characterizations because I'm not a writer. I don't look as closely for consistency. I have no problems admitting that I watch as much for the action as anything else.

[sharona1x2.livejournal.com]

*This* is the female lead you want, right here!

Wouldn't it be wonderful if season 2 explored the new bond between Jack and Tosh? That was one of the nicest parts of episode 12.

[testickles.livejournal.com]

Best plan for Gwen.

*can be more coherent now I'm not falling asleep. I hope.*

Plus, despite things being slightly more relaxed during the war, people themselves might not want to cross that line and be gay. 40s Jack had one night left, I doubt our Jack wanted to push him into anything he'd have to adjust to, he just wanted him to have a good night and enjoy it. If that meant 40s Jack thought Nancy was the best thing, why not? And it did seem that 40s Jack was reluctant to get too attached out of fear, so when you throw in the fact that our Jack's default is to bisexuality, I can see how he didn't right away assume the issues with Nancy weren't that 40s Jack was gay, even if 40s Jack did seem interested in him.

Not that I over think things. Or anything.

[mllelaurel.livejournal.com]

B5 may be the exception to the rule, since JMS (the spelling of whose last name I honestly will master one of these days) had a plan and an arc right from the get-go. Season 1, in this case, wasn't so much dipping its toes in the water as jumping in wholesale, even as it introduced you to the cast and world. But then, I'm also a Sinclair girl, like you, for all that Sheridan grew on me, so I might be biased.

I'm watching Torchwood mainly to see how Captain Jack develops.

That seems to be the great concensus. I used to say 'there's one reason I'm watching this, and his name is Jack Harkness.' Only now I can't say it anymore, since it's actually not his name. *g*

And yes, being a writer has its curses in that it makes you notice behind the scenes details on occasion, dragging you out of the story.

[mllelaurel.livejournal.com]

That's not overthinking. That's character analysis. *licks and keeps it*

[mllelaurel.livejournal.com]

I would love that so very much! Those two have one of the best, most endearing relationships in the series.

[testickles.livejournal.com]

*licks you*

I like analysing. It's like my default state.

[sephyelysian.livejournal.com]

The thing about Babylon 5 is that it was supposed to change. JMS had a five year plan for the show with loopholes and trapdoors to account for real life incidents such as actor departures. It was envisioned as a novel in space and as such pretty much accomplished that. There's no such plan for Torchwood.

I more than agree on with you on the TNG point. The writers really didn't have much of an idea of where they were, what they wanted to do, and as such, it showed in the early writing. There was no grasp of character because they didn't have characterizations which for me will make a break a movie or show. I can forgive plot inconsistences, I can forgive gaping plot holes but if the characters are inconsistent and just don't grab me, even if it's the most well-acted, well-written thing ever, I find myself losing interest.

I feel that in this case, they might have benefited from a tighter character arc ala Babylon 5 or Buffy the Vampire Slayer. And I think that maybe there would have been more of that if RTD had been involved. I think that some of the continuity issues might have been resolved better rather than swinging characterization from week to week. I didn't realize this until I did a bit of research but in Doctor Who's first season he wrote four or five of the 13 episodes and again, he did this with the second season as well as both Christmas specials. He wrote SJA's pilot and is scheduled to write several episodes for that but with Torchwood, he wrote the pilot and I think I saw he's got an episode scheduled for next season but that's it. I think that Torchwood could have used the guiding hand that Doctor Who got and still gets and that it looks like SJA will be getting. I'm not saying Rusty is the shiny happy television fairy but I think he has a pretty good grasp of characters and carrying continuity with them which was needed. Gwen, for example, needed the kind of steady development that Rose was given because she was supposed to serve that same purpose.

I rather love John Barrowman but I will admit, I'm a bit disquieted by the entire "Captain Jack's characterization is going to switch back to his Who persona when he's on Who" and vice versa with Torchwood. Uuuuh, why can't that be constant? Why can't Jack stay changed? There's a way to work that into the more general, less "adult" (and I really hate that term) context of Doctor Who. We all know he's a swinging 51st century man; you can show that without having him shag everything into the ground. So yes, I'll continue watching for Barrowman but this is also one of those cases (though much less extreme) for me like Milla Jovovich. I adore Milla, she's one of my favorite actresses and that being said, I'd watch her eat potato chips but Ultraviolet? Sucked on toast. It was a horrible, painful movie. Torchwood is by no means that bad but it's the same principle.

I sound picky, I know and I don't mean to. I certainly respect all the points you've made. The character thing just drives me absolutely up the wall because I like seeing characters grow from episode to episode, not grow one episode, go right back to being unchanged, and then the next episode makes a note of the change that happened two episodes back. I'd rather have no growth at all in that case and start off fresh each week because at least that's consistent. XD;

[sephyelysian.livejournal.com]

And yes, being a writer has its curses in that it makes you notice behind the scenes details on occasion, dragging you out of the story.

Amen. Also, sorry to spam your journal with my long-winded responses. ^^;

[mllelaurel.livejournal.com]

No problem at all. I love your long, thoughtful responses and the fact that they're on my journal makes me feel all special.

[mllelaurel.livejournal.com]

Captain Jack's characterization is going to switch back to his Who persona when he's on Who" and vice versa with Torchwood.

Whu? Now that's just dumb.

[sephyelysian.livejournal.com]

This has actually been stated and confirmed by the BBC. I think Outpost Gallifrey had something up about it recently? I think their rationale is that Doctor Who is not an adult show whereas Torchwood is. Now, I would argue anything that contemplates genocide and has some of the violence it does is NOT a children's show but then DW has always been in a weird place label-wise. But I'm a little confused about how they're going to mesh Jack as he was and Jack as is now and argue that the trade off in the shows makes perfect sense. x_X