BtVS vs. Torchwood

[mllelaurel]

I just rewatched "Earshot," and sadly, what this leads me to is giving "Greeks Bearing Gifts" a lot less credit than I initially had. Sure, Torchwood writers in general seem awfully keen on 'paying homage' to Joss's work, but Whithouse took large chunks of plot and theme wholesale out of Jane Espenson's original.

Which only makes clearer the sad fact that Espenson did it better.


Torchwood: Toshiko overhears a businessman thinking of killing his ex wife and stops him.
BtVS: Buffy overhears a lunchlady planning to kill the students and stops her.

T: Toshiko overhears Ianto's depressed thoughts. (I actually have another problem with that bit - It's perfectly valid to assume that Ianto's still depressed over Lisa's death, but the 'thoughts' Tosh overhears can only be described as 'emo'. Speaking from experience, real depressed people do not think in anything like those terms.)
B: Thinking that he's the planned killer she's looking for, Buffy stops Jonathan from committing suicide. With this action comes the realization that everyone in high school is in great emotional pain, and that's why they ignore the pain of others. No such emotional insight is reached in "GBG."

T: Toshiko is unable to read Jack's thoughts, presumably due to his resurrected status.
B: Buffy is unable to read Angel's thoughts due to his being a vampire. "It's like the mirror; the thoughts are there but they don't reflect."

T: Toshiko stumbles on Gwen and Owen's affair. (She needed telepathy to know? I thought they were being pretty obvious.)
B: Buffy accidentally learns about the time Giles and Joyce slept together. (Not obvious in the least, and gah! Poor Buffy!)


There are differences, sure. No one like Mary appears in "Earshot," for instance. However, she reminds me strongly of Darla, not to mention manages to rip off Turlough's backstory wholesale (admittedly, his wasn't a fabrication). When you put them all together, the 'homages' stop being homages and become plaigiarism instead.

One could argue that you run the risk just by having a telepathy episode; a story which carries with it its own tropes. I counter that with plenty of other series that have done it, in a fashion altogether different from the one presented here: Babylon 5 and X-men, just to name two.

In conclusion, "Greeks Bearing Gifts" is not a bad episode, in that it didn't make me hit pause and storm out, or offend me morally and aesthetically [1], but the clear - and clearly inferior to the original - ripoff is a serious mark in the episode's disfavor. From the guy who wrote the wonderful "School Reunion," this is a heartbreaking disappointment.


[1] - Yes, these are now my official requirements and expectations for Torchwood. Yes, that's very sad.

Comments

[amet.livejournal.com]

I haven't seen the ep in question yet, but from what I've heard about it I'm a little disappointed. I don't expect much from Torchwood, mind you, but wholesale 'borrowing' from Buffy (like the concepts and Angel-esque backdrop of Jack!angst wasn't enough) is just tacky. I know that Joss-verse is way popular in Britain, but the new Doc Who manages to be in that same bracket of hip wittiness without doing the exact same thing or being half as clumsy. I don't understand how Torchwood has managed to be this weak with the same people backing it up.

[mllelaurel.livejournal.com]

It's a mystery. I wish I had greater insight into why Torchwood sunk so low after DW soaring so high, but frankly, I'm baffled.

To say nothing of the fact that a) broody angst is out of character for the Jack *I* know and love, and b) they didn't actually let *Angel* get away with it - every time he tried, someone (usually Cordelia) would undercut him.

[silverrose.livejournal.com]

Greetings- I came by here poking around to check you out for a community you applied to, and found that we have lots of common interests and common fandoms, so I friended you. Hope that's ok!

I hadn't thought about the similarities between this Torchwood ep and "Earshot", but I'm not sure I'd agree that it goes far enough to be considered plagiaristic. I'll have to give it some thought. I'm really enjoying Torchwood, and I'm a little puzzled at the amount of criticism I'm seeing in the fandom. It's not that I don't see the same things, like the change in Jack's character which I really dislike, but for some reason it's not hindering my enjoyment of the episodes. I guess I'm just not taking it that seriously, it's entertainment and that's all.

[mllelaurel.livejournal.com]

*waves* Great to meet you! Friending is more than fine; friending makes me happy! *adds back*

I don't know that it would be considered plagiarism in a court case, but it's enough to make me notice, which robs me of some of my enjoyment. Once I noticed the similarities, then I also noticed the way the characters behaved like teenagers in this episode, which would certainly have been par for the course in the third season of Buffy. Without the Buffy connections, this was a minor quibble. With them...yeah.

The fact that I know Whithouse can do better also played a part.

To be fair, I am enjoying Torchwood enough to keep watching - I would have stopped long ago, otherwise. Not one for emotional masochism, me. I started watching for one simple reason - his name being Jack Harkness - so the (to me, unwarranted) change in his characterization was a significant blow to my interest. Add to that the absolutely godawful second episode and no episodes I'd wholeheartedly consider great, with the notable exception of Helen Raynor's "Ghost Machine." Unfortunately, that was Raynor's only script for the series.

Despite the criticism, "Greeks Bearing Gifts," is still one of the better episodes, by my count. That's kind of sad, but still.

Still, hope springs eternal and if the coming episodes are going to be brilliant (which is entirely possible), I certainly don't want to miss the boat.

[silverrose.livejournal.com]

his name being Jack Harkness - so the (to me, unwarranted) change in his characterization was a significant blow to my interest.

I'm holding on to faith that just because they haven't yet shown us the reason for Jack's change, it doesn't mean there isn't one. Barrowman says in every interview that every character has a secret and that they'll be starting to unravel by the end, and seems quite gleeful about the hidden reason for Jack's new darkness. JB is a pro and I'm going to trust him on this, that it's all going to make sense.

[mllelaurel.livejournal.com]

That makes absolute sense. I love John Barrowman (and have even before he was famous) and trust in his acting ability. I've also noticed him channeling Jack in interviews, so I get the impression he really knows the character inside-out. That said, Barrowman doesn't get to write the plot. If he's handed a clunker, all he can do is try to make it as believable as he can, even with his considerable tallent. And I just plain worry that whatever Jack's secret is, it'll wind up wangsty and cliched.

I actually don't mind the darkness so much as the ineffectiveness. The Jack I know is a man of action. He'd act cheerful and do something even if he were dying on the inside. Instead of, you know, standing on rooftops a lot.

I also mind him getting his own personal closet in this series. The fact that he went from a family show to an adult one and the attraction to the same sex got toned down doesn't altogether bode well.

[silverrose.livejournal.com]

I don't think they've toned down the same-sex stuff in Torchwood, so much as it hasn't been relevant yet. We haven't had much of a Jack-themed episode, except fhe fairy one (sorry, title escapes me), as they have been trying to let us get to know the other characters. Also, it was only the first couple of eps that he stood on the roof a lot. Hee.

I don't think he's exactly "channeling Jack" in those interviews. There's one I read this morning- I can find the link if you like, it was off somewhere here on LJ- where he said there's 90% of him in Jack and 90% of Jack in him, "and who wouldn't want 90% of Jack Harkness in you?" so I think, despite him being a terrific actor, he and this character have quite a bit in common and that's what's coming out (no pun intended-really!) in interviews.

[mllelaurel.livejournal.com]

The Doctor Who eps weren't really Jack-centered either, but we still got a lot more of him, in a lot less time. (The fairy ep is "Small Worlds," by the way.) To me, any roof is too much roof (and there was roof as late as "Greeks Bearing Gifts"), just cause it's such a cliche. And they're not even sending it up one bit.

I can see that, too. My love for JB just keeps growing and growing.

[silverrose.livejournal.com]

There was roof in Greeks Bearing Gifts? I'm going to have to watch that one again...
The Doctor Who thing is kind of my point- there, he was the new one we needed to get to know; in Torchwood we supposedly already know Jack, so they're focusing on the other characters.
Ah well- off to find a torrent of tonight's ep...

[mllelaurel.livejournal.com]

From what I hear tonight's ep is a good one. And my torrent just finished, so I'm off to watch.